Today I’m starting on page 15 in the book, Not Left Behind:  Going Back for the Offended .   (Found in pdf format under “books” on this website.)

Jay and I were challenged by some while formatting the book to change the content around to make it more of a “read”.  But we resisted that, preferring instead to stay with the way the Lord had it unfold.  My sense is that now, too, I’m to follow the lead of the Lord, and not conventional wisdom.  I’m not applying any “rules” around what that will look like, either in format or content.

Just a note, too, that here I’m using a Word document the predated the formatting for the book.  So if you’re following in the book – it looks different.


Lisa wrote:

Hello Jay,

I enjoyed reading what you had to say – still digesting it – and wonder why you sent it to me and not as a general post?  I haven’t seen anything relating to Biblical terms in the Deida postings (I’ve only been reading them for a week or two), but would be interested in hearing others’ take on this.  I, personally, am not a Biblical scholar, but your thoughtfulness and translation into the here and now intrigued me.  This whole issue of sexuality and spirituality is vast and certainly can be framed in several contexts.  Thanks for sharing your frame of reference.


I think this was my feeble attempt to “smoke him out” in case he was an internet lurker/stalker.  :-/

Jay wanted the formatting to have my email in its entirety before he broke it down.  Even though it added repetition and length to the book, it was both honoring and lended itself to full vulnerability to do it this way. 


Lisa wrote:

  • I enjoyed reading what you had to say – still digesting it

Dear Lisa,

Thank you for your encouraging note.

  • and wonder why you sent it to me and not as a general post?

Not having read the postings long enough to get a sense of where people were coming from, I was reluctant to stick my oar in. Your contribution, to which I responded, contained so much that I have been exploring for a number of years now, that I thought you might be a safe place to share some thoughts. I am encouraged that this seems to have been a correct impression.

I haven’t seen anything relating to Biblical terms in the Deida postings (I’ve only been reading them for a week or two), but would be interested in hearing others’ take on this.

Perhaps, after reading the postings for a little longer, I might feel free to post it. I try to meet people where they are, and I’m still not sure of where they are on this list. Yesterday I received my first two books by David Deida, and I spent some time reading last night and this morning. I’m not yet ready to write a book review either, but I’m digesting, perhaps to that end.

I, personally, am not a Biblical scholar, but your thoughtfulness and translation into the here and now intrigued me.  This whole issue of sexuality and spirituality is vast and certainly can be framed in several contexts.

For the past 15 years I have been researching and working on a book, by the title I have already alluded to, “In Other Words, Sex Is a Parable.” In 1980 or so I had a book published on the monetary implications of the Bible, and am currently doing a rewrite on it for a Wall Street publishing firm. The monetary implications of the Bible turn out to be love. That’s what I found in 7 years of Biblical research on that subject.

If the current subject is of interest I would be glad to send you a little glimpse into my perspective on what I call, “relationships that come from God.”

In this connection, I should say that your posting today is exactly right. It has to do with “being”, not “doing”. “Doing”, that is not grounded in “being” is always born out of our insecurities. Insecure people aren’t much good to themselves or others.

Spiritual being is a matter of revelation.



I was particularly struck by how diligent he was – all those years were quite an investment – as well as this concept of being vs doing.

This last sentence, “Spiritual being is a matter of revelation.” is what captures my attention now.


Lisa wrote:

Hello Jay-

Yes, I would be interested in a glimpse into your perspective. I will be out of pocket from Christmas eve thru the weekend after New Years’, but would look forward to a response by then.  Thanks for the offer.

Take care,


In the spirit of honoring and vulnerability, I’m not interrupting what Jay wrote next.

Dear Lisa

In February of 2000, I experienced a paradigm shift: In four months of a broken heart. I don’t think I ever want to be without one again.

In October of 1999, a friend, Nate Krupp asked me to clean up three or four manuscripts which I had been working on for about 15 years. He said it’s time, and he wanted to get them published as soon as possible. Nate’s wife Joanne had finally published her book on women, which contains so much truth that she was unable to find anyone who would publish it for over 8 years. The book is called “WOMAN, GOD’S PLAN, NOT MAN’S TRADITION.”

My three manuscripts dealt with; the church as a new creation, “IN OTHER WORDS SEX IS A PARABLE”; “THE AUTHORITY CRISES”; and “CIRCUMCISION THE BATTLE OF BELONGING”.  Nate asked that I try to combine them. It hadn’t been so easy, and then became impossible. I felt there was a real need to make the book more personal. So I began working on a chapter, tentatively titled “GETTING PERSONAL, CHAPTER 17, a new last chapter.

In this chapter my intention was to be as transparent and vulnerable as possible. I was determined to let it all hang out.  I say, “determined”, because the thought of being that vulnerable was very frightening.  The fear was, and is, the fear of rejection.

As I was thinking about this my wife, Carleen, and I were on a walk together with some friends in our woods. We came to a new insight on the parable of the talents, Matthew 25:14-30.  Looking at the one talent slave, in context, we saw that the parable has little or nothing to do with financial investment, stock market investment, putting money in a bank, or even burying it in the ground. It is speaking about high risk investment as contrasted with the relative safety of money in the bank. It has to do with the nature of the investment.

In the Kingdom of God, the investment is in relationships. Jesus is the investor, He staked everything on relationship first of all, His relationship with His Father, and, with His Father as His backer, He invested everything in us who believe. He is after relationships, lots of them. Jesus’ Father is looking for fellowship.  When the Greeks wanted to meet Jesus, He went away and left the job to us.

By His death, He made a deposit in us, and The Spirit continues to bring us even more of Him. Jesus is looking for a return on His investment. He knows what it is to risk rejection, and be rejected, Isaiah 53:3. He expects us to take the same risk, and invest ourselves in others.

As I was working on the chapter, I had an increasing sense that I was violating my original intention, which was to be transparent and vulnerable. Then I realized that I was increasingly using the Scriptures to support what I was sharing, and the reason I was doing this was so that I could hide behind the Scriptures.  I was hiding behind the Scriptures because of the fear of rejection. Jesus was despised and rejected. I don’t want to be despised and rejected. I want to be esteemed and accepted. Talk about “Who do you think you are?”

Recently, Tim (my son) and I were talking, and I found myself wondering about Jesus’ style of ministry, wondering if He had used the Scriptures as I was using them. I have not had the opportunity to make a thorough investigation, but it is now my impression that this is not at all the way Jesus ministered.

In His skirmish with the Devil, He used the Scriptures to defend himself, but that was war. Jesus is the Prince of Peace. In the beatitudes, He repeatedly said, “It is written…” but then went on to say, “But I tell you….” When confronted by the Pharisees, He quoted Scripture, but, again, that was war. The Scripture is a weapon, our only offensive weapon. We only need weapons when we are at war. When we are at peace, we can be vulnerable. If I am making love, I don’t have to come on with all guns blazing. For years I have joked about wearing pink to leaders meetings to keep them from being too threatened. I don’t want to be seen as a threat, but as a lover.

Jesus may have “only said the things His father said”, but It did not come out of Him in the form of Bible verses. We use the phrase, “What I am saying is…” and we go on to say what we have already said, but in different words. This, I believe, is who Jesus was.  He was what the Father was saying, but in different words. If challenged, He could use the Scripture to explain Himself well enough, but He did not come to us as Scripture, He came to us as love and life.  If only we too could go forth in tears, to the end that we might enter into His laughter. If only we too could be like Him in His death, that we too might attain to the resurrection of the dead.

More and more in recent months, I have found myself saying what The Father is saying, but in different words, and without conscious effort. It’s awesome, and it’s terrifying all at once. A person could get hurt doing this sort of thing.

It is at the point of relationship that this becomes particularly problematic. Jesus said of those that the Father had given Him that He “kept”(John 17:12) them while He was in the world. That’s my Father’s heart, His heart and my heart. My heart is increasingly broken as I think of inviting others into this same vulnerability. It is one thing to have faith that He can save and protect me.  It is a bit more of a stretch to have faith that He will save and protect those who He has made mine from the fallout of my humiliation.

As I recently wrote to a friend, my own children are still damaged by the rejection I have experienced, and we as a family have experienced, from the church back in Connecticut. As you know, when the church meets in your home the transparency and vulnerability are greatly increased. When people who were like older brothers and sisters, aunts and uncles, even second parents walked away, because of pressure coming from the institutionalized leaders and saints around us, they just could not understand, and are gun shy to this day. I do take some comfort, however, in knowing that no one is going to sell them any snake oil in the name of The Lord.

But, it was not just my flesh and blood children, it was my spiritual children as well. At this point, just about all of them have come back in the Spirit, but in between then and now, there were many years of alienation and estrangement. In a recent exchange with a local “pastor”, I am looking down the same gun barrel once again. It breaks my heart to see my children hurt so. For this reason, I make every effort to maintain “the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace,..” and as for my part, to “be at peace with all men.”

Perhaps that’s enough to give you some sense of what I was feeling at that point. I am wrestling with going back over what I have written, and getting rid of most, if not all, the references and footnotes. The problem is, that the religious will see the passion and the intimacy that I have experienced, and into which I am inviting others, that the religious will see this as illegal. That’s what happened to Jesus. When the leadership got in His face about it, He nuked them with the Scripture. At least, tonight, that is the way it looks to me.

Here’s the chapter I was talking about:



We’ll save the Chapter 17 for next week.

These are the things that stand out to me of what he wrote above:

  • In this chapter my intention was to be as transparent and vulnerable as possible. I was determined to let it all hang out. I say, “determined”, because the thought of being that vulnerable was very frightening. The fear was, and is, the fear of rejection.
  • In the Kingdom of God, the investment is in relationships.
  • He expects us to take the same risk, and invest ourselves in others.
  • I was hiding behind the Scriptures because of the fear of rejection.
  • We only need weapons when we are at war. When we are at peace, we can be vulnerable. If I am making love, I don’t have to come on with all guns blazing.
  • He was what the Father was saying, but in different words. If challenged, He could use the Scripture to explain Himself well enough, but He did not come to us as Scripture, He came to us as love and life.
  • Jesus said of those that the Father had given Him that He “kept”(John 17:12) them while He was in the world. That’s my Father’s heart, His heart and my heart. My heart is increasingly broken as I think of inviting others into this same vulnerability.
  • For this reason, I make every effort to maintain “the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace,..” and as for my part, to “be at peace with all men.
  • The problem is, that the religious will see the passion and the intimacy that I have experienced, and into which I am inviting others, that the religious will see this as illegal.

To me all that he wrote, and in particular the sentences directly above, embody Jay’s heart.  He saw things in the Spirit, and lived them – even while being beaten down – with unspeakable joy and hope (of things unseen… but God saw…).  Jay never stopped “beating the arrows against the ground” for and with the Lord.

I heard in the Spirit this morning to say to any of you who were Jay’s that have found your way here – and were hurt somehow in the vulnerability he speaks of – that he welcomes you with open arms.  He spoke of you often with great tenderness, and never lost sight of who you were to him in the Lord, or the unspeakable joy you brought him.  He’s throwing a lavish party for you as we speak.



Posted in Lisa Weger: Book Repost | Leave a comment

Garbage Man

Today I’m beginning with the first email correspondence Jay and I had on December 13, 2003.  In the book, Not Left Behind:  Going Back for the Offended, the pages are 11-15.  My main purposes for going through the book, as stated in last week’s writing, are to look for specifically how Jay “lived” the revelations of God’s Love and Relationships from God.  In addition to that, I’m particularly interested in how Jay spoke into my life as a spiritual parent and how the Lord moved through him and between us. I believe, for me, the Lord has put this in my heart for spiritual children He is preparing for me. Perhaps you share that interest.

I’ll make comments – in present time – in this red color.  In the correspondence what I wrote is italicized, and Jay’s writing is in regular format.

Jay and I had once discussed how much fun it would be to go back to our early communication and talk about our first impressions.  Well, Jay, this is for you!  :-)



Lisa wrote to the list:

Well, I now know one thing to NOT do when you’re a Deida newbie working on changing your relationship dynamics.  You DO NOT talk about why your sex life has not worked in the past.  That’s like shooting yourself in the foot to see if it hurts.  YIKES!  The truth is, it’s all BS anyway – all the “reasons” that kept us from intimacy.  It’s really about good old-fashioned fear, I believe.  I’m becoming convinced that this DD (David Deida) work is on an energetic level and talking isn’t.  So for now I’m going to focus on a lot more non-verbal stuff – moaning, gazing, rubbing, pulling come to mind.



Dear Lisa,

I don’t know if or when I might ever send this response to what you have written here. Right now my common sense tells me that I should watch and learn for a while in order to get a better idea of where people are coming from on this list. But your paragraph above touched on, at least, three aspects relating to the possibility of or conditions for spiritual intimacy.

First off, WHOA!!!  Who is this?

(I think it’s important to note that his focus is spiritual intimacy.  That emphasis and focus was consistent throughout all of our communication and relationship.  That was important to me, because otherwise it could just be creepy.)

I would say therefore, that this is in some sense a journal entry, except that writing to a journal falls too far short of what is possible when writing to a person.

This really begins to show Jay’s heart.  That resonated with the Spirit in me.

Perhaps I can begin by confessing a few givens, the perceptions/realities out of which I write. At 65 years of age, I am convinced that the deepest longing of every human heart is for intimacy, and the greatest fear is the fear of rejection.

That was a direct hit into my Spirit.  He (and the Lord) definitely got my attention!

In some sense the garbage of past experience lies beneath both the hope and the fear. I assume your talking about your sex life related to the one, and expressed fear hardly needs further comment. The “BS” is the garbage.

I know nothing about this “DD work” having only just arrived here from another source of exploration, so I have nothing to contribute from a “DD” perspective. Rather I have come to the exploration of intimacy from a Biblical perspective.

Truthfully, at this point my heart sank a bit.  If you remember from what I posted last week, I had received a word from God that I would meet an older man who would become very important to me. I was already sensing it might be this man.  And he’s talking Bible.  My first thought was, “oh no!  I don’t want to become religious!”  Like I said, I did not really know the Lord at this point, and I was not interested in “going to church”.  (I’ve since learned and believe that there is tremendous warfare against the Bible and against Jesus.  I experienced it myself in that, even believing in Jesus and giving my heart to Him, for a while I still had difficulty saying His name.)  But there was something about the tone of what he was saying that caused me to pause and open to the possibility.  It all sounded like truth to me so far.  And intimate.  That really spoke to me.

 The door of entry from a Biblical perspective is that, in the beginning God made them male and female in His image. Genesis Chapter 1, verse 27.  In Ephesians Chapter 5, verses 31 and 32, the door is opened further where the possibility of spiritual intimacy is concerned: “For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. (This is a quotation from Genesis Chapter 2, verse 24. There it immediately goes on to say: “And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.” verse 25.) This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.”

In other words, sex is a parable.

Wow!!! What??  Let’s read that again…  Is that in the BIBLE??  (Of course, I’m already starting to look up words.  I think I know what a parable is, but let’s just look to make sure…

By that, I am not suggesting that sex cannot be fulfilling for its own sake, rather, I’m saying that sex at its best is only a picture of a greater intimacy, a spiritual intimacy. That the parable is a picture of Christ and the church does not mean that there is no longer any horizontal outworking of intimacy, because there most certainly is. The church spoken of in Ephesians is composed of many people who are intimate with each other because of intimacy with Him. At least, from a Biblical perspective, this is the way it is supposed to work.

I had NEVER heart of this before!  And what is a “horizontal outworking of intimacy”?  What does that mean??

John Chapter 17, verse 21 says, “That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.”

This is what Jesus prayed for?  How does that happen?  What does it look like?

At this point I cannot proceed further without first asking your forgiveness for what may have been represented to you as “church.”

Bingo! I’m really intrigued now. Who is this guy?

The first time Jesus was introduced to humanity, it was said of Him, “Behold the lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world.” John 1:29. To make this up to date in the terms we are using here, Jesus was announced as the garbage man, the one who takes away all the “BS”. In other words, before anything else is possible where intimacy is concerned the “BS” must first be removed.

In years previous, I had spent 7 years in therapy – twice a week – to try to remove the garbage.  Little did I know that Jesus could remove it in the blink of an eye.

Actually, in its popular usage, “BS” is the very opposite of intimacy, it is false rather than true. For that reason I would like to suggest “garbage” as a more helpful description of the problem or obstacle to intimacy.

Without trying to elaborate a complete theology of garbage removal,

You’ve got to love his choice of words!..…

I would for the present share with you, that all of us need to find a place to put our garbage. We are not very good at trash compacting, because when the pressure is on, the garbage sooner or later leaks out, and ruins intimacy.

(Boy, don’t I know this!)

Putting the garbage in the wrong place only messes up everything. They call it “littering,” and it really should be against the law.

… And his sense of humor!  :-D

Being in denial about our garbage is not very smart, because sooner or later everyone knows that we all have garbage.

There are places in all of us where we have never been, and the problem is that you can’t get there alone, because if you went there alone it would not be the same place as it would be if you took someone else with you.

Okay… this is it!!  Jay, you had me at “Hello”!

Garbage is what keeps us from going there. We need a place to put the garbage. Jesus is the only one who can take away the garbage and leave everything clean.


This to say, alone or with others, none of us can go to spiritually intimate places without taking Him with us.

This is exactly what I needed to hear at this time in my life.  I was trying to do it alone, and could not remove the garbage.

There is no way around it/Him. If I am correct, that sex is a parable, and that the point of the parable is Christ and the church, then not to get the point is to be left hung up on the plumbing. Where intimacy is concerned, the reality is spiritual, not plumbing. By this, I’m not saying that the plumbing cannot be part of the intimacy, only that the intimacy available to the plumbing is very limited.

I don’t think I got the full impact of this until later, but I had already concluded in my life that my heart’s desire was for intimacy, and no clue how to do that. What Jay is saying here is so important to have a clue of what the Lord is after.

An aspect of the sexual parable where both the Bible, and the creation is concerned is the matter of circumcision.

Circumcision?  Where did that come from?

From the Bible we discover that the circumcision of the flesh is only a picture of the cutting off of a greater barrier to intimacy/sensitivity, the cutting off of our cluelessness, the cluelessness of our flesh, Colossians 2:11. Common sense, and sexual awareness will tell you, that circumcision should precede intimacy. As it is with the intimacy of the flesh, so must it be with spiritual intimacy. From a Biblical perspective, uncircumcised flesh is part of the garbage. Sooner or later it gets in the way of spiritual intimacy. When it does, the consequences are deadly, even worse than “shooting yourself in the foot.”

It took some time to unpack all of this, but very important to understand and submit to the Lord before spiritual intimacy… before engaging in Relationships from God.

Finally, your conclusion to abandon the verbal in favor of “moaning, gazing, rubbing, and pulling”, raises another very important, if completely ignored, Biblical point. In the Greek, there are four loves that the Bible speaks about. More than likely you have heard of three of them; “agape”, “phileo”, and “eros”. I’m also guessing that, but for the first, you know how they differ, so I won’t go into that here except to say, that The Bible uses “agape” for love, both before and after the crucifixion. The meaning of agape, however, was changed by the crucifixion. The greatest agape anyone knew about before the crucifixion was an agape that might possibly lay its life down for a friend. With the crucifixion a new agape was revealed, one that is willing to lay its life down for enemies. 1 John 3:16, and Romans 5:10.

This is the first reference to what Jay saw in his revelation of “God’s Love”.  He will give testimony to that revelation later.

The fourth Greek word for love found in the Bible is “storge”. You will find it in three places; Romans 1:31, Romans 12:10, and 2 Timothy 3:3.

This is a love that has to do with, “moaning, gazing, rubbing, and pulling”. Storge is the love of a mother for her infant. It is translated, “natural affection.” It is natural to animals including birds, and it is natural to humans or, at least it used to be. It is communicated by look, and tone, and touch. It is the first awareness in new life that it might possibly be of value. When it is not there, the result is dysfunction. In fact, it is already evidence of dysfunction when it’s missing. I should add that the other natural affections, phileo, and eros, are also communicated by look and tone and touch. One result of the dysfunction due to a storge deficit is the attempt to compensate with misplaced eros.

Yep! Been there, done that. Absolutely not interested in going down THAT path again!

While value or being valued can be communicated by look, and tone, and touch, so much more meaning can be communicated with words. In either case, the garbage must be removed or, at least, be properly disposed of as it is uncovered in the experience of intimacy.

Wow! Okay… All that he has written is quite a mouthful.  I know I read and reread all of it several times. 

Writing this was Jay as a Lover in Training at his best.  He listened to what I was saying, responded to all that I said as well as to what the Lord put on his heart, and represented the Lord in a way that encouraged me to “go there”.  It doesn’t get any better than this!

There is certainly much more that could be said on the subject from a Biblical perspective, but perhaps it is best for now to limit my response to the several points you touched on in your email.

As a fellow “newbie”, I have just reread the rules, and saw that I can send this to you in private rather than via the whole list. I hope you will not be offended by my doing so. I sincerely mean all that I have said above, and know by study and experience that it is true.



One thing that I had always had was a heart for elders.  I also have a great deal of respect for someone who believes whole heartedly in something.  That this “something” was of such significance was astounding to me. And that he took the time and risk to write to me all of this.  I was fluttering inside… definitely the Spirit was “lit” in me.  And yet, I met this guy on the web!  Caution seemed prudent. 

More next week.



Posted in Lisa Weger: Book Repost | 4 Comments

Fasten Your Seat Belts!

The Lord has put on my heart a few things to say before getting into the book.  The details in the book, as in any relationship – by the very nature of “relationship”, are intensely personal.  The discomfort of getting into each other’s personal lives is, I believe, a huge reason why people choose “system” over relationship.  It’s just too messy and hurtful to do relationship.  System is much easier and safer.  But we’re called to be in relationship – first with God, and with one another in and by His Spirit.  And in and by His Spirit, and with what Jesus did for us to make it possible, we are able – and called – to go there.  So this book, and all that I’m going to write in conjunction when going through this book, is dedicated to having the fruit of relationship in our lives.

What qualifies me to expound on this subject – relationship, specifically spiritual relationship, I believe, is not that I have a handle on any of it.  But rather that the Lord has given me a heart for it, and has invested heavily in me in this area.  I make mistakes just as we all do and go thru periods when I’m not willing in one way or another to participate.  The Lord seems to allow this… He has given me periods of respite.  To be honest, it can be extremely intense living in these spiritual relationships.  There is a huge amount of spiritual warfare against God’s Love, and participating in His Love.  I have also experienced tremendous passion in the context of these relationships – the Lord’s passion – which is all consuming and in many ways exhausting, all while being exhilarating and life giving.  I believe that once you have a taste of what’s possible and what the Lord is after, you cannot accept any substitutes.  One of the things that Jay regularly stated about me is that I was “unchurched”, which set me up to be able to experience and incorporate these relationships and truths without having to be emptied first of a lot of erroneous teaching that makes people members of system rather than relationship.   The Lord has managed to keep me “unchurched” to this day, which delights me to no end, and would – I’m sure – Jay.  :-)

There are other things that “qualify” me to speak to what Jay talks about.  One is that Jay and I had 9 years of almost daily communication by email – most days numerous emails.  The timing was the last 9 years of Jay’s life, the last of 40+ years of his living in this relational dimension.  Jay poured himself into me and after the first 3 years of our relationship told me that he had given me everything – the best of what he had in him.  The next 6 years was walking it out.  We worked together throughout those 9 years talking with people – mostly online – being a witness to what the Lord was doing through us in relationship.  I lost access to most of those emails – I believe part of the spiritual warfare – but have enough in writing, and certainly in my heart, to feel I can accurately convey much of what we talked about, especially in these areas of God’s Love and Relationships from God.  Also, Jay told others – including Carleen – that of all of his spiritual children I “got” him the best.  He would often say that I said what he said better than he did.  And the last thing I said to Jay – in person the day before he died – was that I would do my best to pass on what he had given me.

For those of you who know me and wonder what became of me after Jay’s passing, I’ve been quietly living, adjusting to a new phase of life.  I’m now 63, just 2 years younger than Jay was when I met him, and not nearly as prolific as he was in either writing or in relationships.  He was uniquely suited and chosen for so many things that I’m not sure many of us could aspire to.  Two years before Jay passed, my husband of 30 years divorced me, and that, along with losing Jay, has taken many years to recover from.  In the meanwhile, the Lord has taught me to increasingly trust Him and lean on Him.   While I’ve continued to live relationally – to make relationships the most important thing we’re here to learn to do – I’m just now feeling the stirrings of the Lord to pick up where Jay and I left off.

Jay and I had initially intended to make this book the first of a 3 part series.  For various reasons that did not happen.  Perhaps the most significant event of the second book was the revelation we each had – with second witnesses – of who we were to each other.  The Lord made me a spiritual daughter to him.  Something that Jay fervently believed, and I concur, is that before we can go deep into relationship with anyone, especially someone of the opposite sex, we need to have revelation of who we are to one another.  That relationship not only dictates who we are to each other, but the context and content of what passes between us.  For instance, just as in our natural families – if things are working right – we listen with different ears to what a father would say rather than a sibling.  A father would speak differently to a child than to a brother or sister.  He speaks into the child’s life, and in the best case scenario the child aspires to be “like Dad” when he/she grows up.  One of the things that I loved about Jay was how he was restrained until he got the green light from the Lord – after the Lord revealed to both people who they were to one another – before he dove in.  He had learned the hard way to restrain himself, and to not try to take someone somewhere before knowing who they were to each other, and what the person was ready for.  Jay had great sensitivity to the Spirit, as well as to the person he was being given.

I believe that what I laid out here is what the Lord put on my heart as a sort of foreword to moving into the book.  I do believe there are some things not in the book that provide more of a setting to where we both were at the time we met online.

One of the main reasons that I paid such close attention to what Jay said, aside from the strong spiritual stirrings, was that I had a word from God about 3 months before we met that I was “going to meet an older man who was much further along spiritually and who was going to become very important to me”; and, “he would be talking a language I would not understand”.  I got the very strong sense, from the first email, that this person was Jay.  And while the language was English, there were so many references and nuances that were unfamiliar to me (being “unchurched” and not really knowing the Lord) – not to mention Jay’s unique communication style, it was like deciphering a foreign language.  The Lord brought understanding to me on so many levels.  The other thing is that I had a life changing experience just prior to receiving this word – described in the book starting on page 56 in the chapter, “The Love Patent”.  Jay later told me that he believed, and I concur, that during this experience I had been baptized with the Holy Spirit.  All this to say that the Lord got my attention in a big way to prepare me for what He had in store.

At the time of our first email exchange, I had gone to a sort of “chat room” while seeking healing for my marriage.  Jay came there at the request of another spiritual daughter to check it out.  That’s where he responded to a posting I had made, and the rest is as we recorded.  Perhaps that’s enough introduction for now.

I would like to add one other thing.  If anything I’ve said has caused you to feel offended and you’re still with me, as Jay would say, “Good!  Now we’re getting somewhere!”  I can see Jay smiling in my mind’s eye.  Time to fasten the seat belts!  :-)



Posted in Lisa Weger: Book Repost | 10 Comments

A New Direction

Hello friends and family of Jay’s!

This is Lisa Weger, a spiritual daughter of Jay’s.  I’ve been reading alongside all of you as these blogs of Jay’s have been reissued week after week.  Talking with Pam, Carleen and a couple of other witnesses, we have decided to change direction in what and how we post.  Our hope is that you will agree and participate in the upcoming journey.

In conversations with Jay, there were 2 major revelations that he had in his lifetime that he cherished and held tight to for the rest of his life.  They were on the Love of God and Relationships from God. These revelations changed his life, and the lives of many of us who knew him.  Combined – understood and lived out thru God – they have the power to make us, the Church, unshakable.

Since early in my relationship with Jay I have wanted to spend time delving more into these revelations and how, in particular, Jay lived them out.  From his revelation of the Love of God, Jay coined the term “Lover in Training”.  This, he believed and passed on to us, is our job description.  I’ve never come across a better Lover in Training than Jay.  My heart is to look at his life and who and how the Lord made him – both to honor him, and to come away with more revelation in the areas of God’s Love and Relationships from God as well as more inspiration and power in the Spirit to live them.

As a vehicle to start this journey, we believe that a good place to start is the book of emails between Jay and myself titled, “Not Left Behind:  Going Back for the Offended”.   (The book is on this website in pdf format – the link is HERE).   For several reasons.   First and foremost, it shows Jay in real time being a Lover in Training.  These were the actual emails between us, word for word, except for changing some names.  Second, in the course of discussion, Jay introduces himself and these revelations as only he could.  And third, it was Jay’s heart to have conversations and relationships (as first shown to me on page 12 of the book, in the second paragraph of the first email he wrote to me: “except writing to a journal falls too far short of what is possible when writing to a person”.)   Jay’s message of being a Lover in Training cannot be fully understood outside the context of relationship.  The Lord needed another (me) to demonstrate, with Jay, the dynamic and chemistry and force of His Spirit as He puts two people together for His purposes.   That was all captured in this book.

We’re not sure how the Lord will orchestrate this undertaking – how we’ll go thru the book. Our belief is that will fall into place as we go.  We hope that all of you will join us in conversation as we go, adding more of your personal experiences with Jay and understandings of what you learned from and with him.

Welcome to the journey!

Lisa Weger

Posted in Lisa Weger: Book Repost | 3 Comments

It’s Not About Movements!

It’s about relationships –

First and foremost about our relationship with Him, and His relationship with us.

But, with that as a given, how can we say we have a relationship with Him when we have no meaningful relationships with each other – none that come even close to our oneness that Jesus prayed and died for?

Where is that “first love,” without which there is no fire, and our candlestick is gone? Where is this love that is the first fruit of The Spirit? For that matter, where is the evidence of the Spirit’s work in our relationships with each other?

Paul writes to us in Ephesians: Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord’s will is. Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit, speaking to one another with psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit. Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord,” Ephesians 5:17-19.

And this brings me once again to the very rocks crying out: (While the theology of rocks is not perfect, why should it be any better than the theology of what’s been calling itself “church”?)

How Do You Keep The Music Playing


By Jay Ferris, originally posted March 18th, 2012

NOTE: Jay’s original video was Frank Sinatra singing this song, not of himself, but the original video is no longer available on YouTube.  But, since then Jay had done a karaoke version of the same song that was filmed by his daughter.  The link above will take you to this version. Enjoy! :-)

Posted in J.Ferris: Reposts with Notes | 2 Comments

Speaking in Parables

“The disciples came to him and asked, ‘Why do you speak to the people in parables?’ He replied, ‘Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. This is why I speak to them in parables:

‘Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.’

In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:

‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them…’

Jesus spoke all these things to the crowd in parables; he did not say anything to them without using a parable. So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophet:

‘I will open my mouth in parables,
I will utter things hidden since the creation of the world.’

Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, ‘Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field…” Matthew 13:10-15, 3-36 NIV

(For context it is very helpful to read all of Matthew 13.)

Why did Jesus speak to the crowds in parables? It was because He was and is looking for those who will come to Him in private, and ask Him what He means.

In any given gathering, there is usually more than one “meeting” going on.


By Jay Ferris, originally posted March 8, 2012

Posted in J.Ferris: Reposts with Notes | Leave a comment

Mutated Cells – Take 2

“He will not shout or cry out, or raise his voice in the streets. A bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out. In faithfulness he will bring forth justice; he will not falter or be discouraged till he establishes justice on earth. In his teaching the islands will put their hope.”
Isaiah 42:2-4

One of the problems with shooting in the dark, as is so often the case with Internet communication, is innocent people can get hit by “friendly fire.”

Where our introductory passage here is concerned, innocent people likely include “bruised reeds” and “smoldering wicks.”

Jesus never shoots in the dark. It is true, however, that those who listen in or overhear what He may say to others, especially religious experts, are vulnerable to misunderstanding, and think that He is talking to them. Where a venue does not afford opportunity for private conversation it can be difficult to get this misunderstanding sorted out.

Back in the late 70s, I saw the similarity between cancer and what has been calling itself “church,” and shared the word picture in a small gathering of believers.  Even there, where there was opportunity for conversation, it was difficult to tend the wounds of the innocents.

Anticipating this same problem here, I need to clarify what I understand to be “Mutated Cells.” One of the ways that cancer is detected is by the difference in the speed of healthy cell metabolism and that of cancer cells – mutated cells. They metabolize very rapidly. Drinking liquid sugar or injecting radioactive i.v. solutions is the way that scans for cancer typically light up the cancer. Cancer loves sugar, and its speed of metabolism is highlighted by radioactivity. Or so I understand. (I’m no expert yet, but I am paying very close attention in class. By the way, I’m off of sugar.)

If we can find words that target, and hit only mutated cells, there is some hope of avoiding innocent people being hit by verbal shots aimed at those mutated cells. If this can be done in a way that the innocents are able to see and understand the M.O. (Modus Operandi – method of operation) of mutated cells, there might be some hope of keeping the innocent from being vulnerable or as vulnerable to the mutated cells.

“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.” Matthew 23:15

In my experience this verse is exemplary of what I am talking about here. Our hope is that this blog might be helpful where discerning the difference between healthy cells and mutated cells is concerned. Jesus came that we might have life… not pointy top buildings, programs, systems, deals, multilevel marketing networks, “down line,” etc. To paraphrase the way someone put it, “Is it Memorex or is it Jesus?” It’s not always so easy to tell the difference.

Did I mention that what God calls Church is not divided? You can read about it in the Bible.


By Jay Ferris, originally posted March 4, 2012

Posted in J.Ferris: Reposts with Notes | Leave a comment